--that Pewter guy? [ tama had mentioned someone who made questionable choices and could make pretty impressive technological devices, so he is just pulling from what he remembers. ] I feel like it'd be a little more troublesome than usual to hack with your usual methods. And if you can't make easy repairs to your body...[ he gets why she is checking. but he thinks it could be terrible if something goes wrong in trying to check it out.
but yeah he grins a little. ]
I'd almost say quirkiest human I know, but you have some competition. But the breathing thing kinda gave it away, yeah. It doesn't matter to me though. [ tama is tama, basically. ] It worked out for him for a while, sure. But eventually I think he realized he couldn't continue to run. At the end of it all, he let me release his soul. He's currently building overpasses for my father for Asphodel though, so it could be worse for him.
That Pewter guy. I guess he’s… sort of my dad? But saying it like that gives me the major ick. And yeah. The body’s important— my memories are stored on the cloud so we can access them if we short circuit, but it’s like… what’s the point in saving your whole phone history if you can’t use your phone?
[ it’s there but without “her” it’s just ones and zeros. ]
… Oh come on, you don’t have to immediately agree with me. Although, ooh. Who? Who’re my rivals? [ lmao ]
It’s kind of weird— death being something you want to avoid, but you still have an active afterlife anyway. Most people just think of it as lights out, you’re done. [ … ] I wonder if it’s more like the death you know or the one I’d think of, here.
[ he snorts at that. ] Believe me, I will not refer to Pewter as your dad. But...yeah, I get that. Without somewhere to put it, you kind of can't do much with your personality and your memories.
[ your data, so it were. ]
Why does it feel like you'd say the same if I didn't agree? And no way, I'm not telling. But...they're friends, so that's all you need to know.
[ he thinks this over. ] In his specific case, he was avoiding death because he was avoiding a ghost who wanted to rule unfair judgment against him once he got to the Underworld. But when I released him he was able to be fairly judged even if Minos tried to rule against him. The politics of death are a little...[ he waves a hand. ]
...I think if anything, the death here is something in between. I've been trying to figure that out.
Yeaaah. Creator might work. Less icky thinking of him like that, I only really see him when Ryuki’s psyncing or he’s running maintenance. [ estranged father… ]
Pfft. No faith in me. [ hmmm. ] Mean.
That sounds way too complicated. But— I wonder if death is really “the end” here. I don’t know how? And I don’t know if I want to dig into the how either.
[ he raises an eyebrow even while he's looking at the ai-ball. ]
When Ryuki's what? [ explain the psync. he does not apologize but he does grin at her. he is mean. but also. ] You'd be surprised how much I actually trust you, Tama. Let's just leave it that way.
I'm trying to decide which leader might have the best leads to ask about tapping into our old powers, or at least contacting the deceased. With everything that we've heard lately I don't think they're fully gone. At least not the way we would expect.
[ she does not elaborate even though she knows she will probably have to eventually. the next part does get a blink from her. a tiny little surprised one. ]
Oh. [ awwwww ] I guess that works both ways then.
Hmm. Good point. I don’t know if any if them have a special interest in the supernatural or something, that could be a start….
[ okay well he's about to ask about psyncing and then tama doesn't explain and then she details him by saying the trust goes both ways and for some reason he looks surprised by that?? so he's just like "okay well anyway" while looking at the computer to avoid her gaze. he's pleased but a little shocked. ]
I think...some of them have experience with things similar to what I've seen before. But I don't know if it's the same. I'll have to think about who's most reasonable if it's not someone with experience with the dead.
[ she’d pinch his little pleased but shocked cheeks, but she’s squinting at “herself” instead, and carefully disconnecting it from the computer. ]
I wondered if there might be something in the depths of the jail — y’know, where people can’t normally go? But I can’t imagine it’d be easy to secretly host an ever expanding group of people there. And it’s not like I can tap into one of the jailer’s somniums to find out the place’s secrets.
[ he was starting to get tempted to poke the ai-ball so this is maybe for the best. ]
It's possible. Since we know the jail blocks people's powers from being used, there's probably a whole other level that we weren't able to get to before we all got arrested.
Oh. It’s like a memory— or a vision? Unique to a person, and based off their memories and recent events or traumatic, significant experiences that have impacted them. We use it for suspects who can’t or won’t talk, either because they’re scared, threatened or just have something to hide.
I explore them, but it’s at Ryuki’s … not command? But he can’t physically enter a Somnium. I can. Sort of. Depends on how define “physically”.
Maybe. We have time during the beginning of our weeks for things. And we're heroes. It wouldn't be that out there to think heroes want to check the security of the prisons and make sure the city's safe, right? Distract a guard long enough and you can go anywhere.
[ ...this sounds like a dream to him, really, but that's probably because demigod dreams are usually prophetic, or can show people visions of current things happening. or in nico's case it's just a litany of nightmares mixed in with both options so whatever. ]
Like hypnotherapy. You can help a person's subconscious with discovering what their brains are trying to say and learn more information to work off of in the outside world. [ huh. wild. he nods though because he gets it. partnership, not orders.] Can Ryuki see what you're doing while you're in a Somnium then? Or do you talk to him before you go in to start looking at what's there?
I mean. I’m up for it if you are. Who’d be up for breaking into jail? Or… having a formal visit with ulterior motives? Unless a couple of people would be easier…
[ chaos ]
Mm. Not exactly. A subject doesn’t remember the events of their somnium, despite being present it in. It’s like accessing deeply buried memories at a subconscious level. Yup. Ryuki’s present, and I can’t access a somnium without him. But I’m the one interacting with everything. It’s an abstract simulation, after all. The only time Ryuki would be “present” physically in a somnium would be if it was his own.
He can see everything I do, and figure out what we’re seeing together. The somnium is linked to a video feed as well, so Boss and Pewter usually observe too.
I do have to wonder if they'd let me considering what happened last time. [ i.e. he got arrested once for breaking into jail, so would they just go "no" next time? ] There has to be a better way in. That's what we should focus on, and see what other people might be able to do. Even if it's not the jail...we should start prioritizing looking through the city for anything unusual.
[ this is all kind of big-brain stuff but at the same time he does seem to understand what she's saying. he nods along, letting her talk as he sorts through the info. ]
Makes sense. If people knew you were poking around in their subconscious they'd probably be pretty mad and you wouldn't be able to get the information you needed in the first place. Is a somnium the same every time you go into it? Like if you leave and then you want to find an answer to a different question.
[ ... ] I guess it doesn't matter here, I was just wondering. It sounds a little similar to how our dreams work, sometimes. Sometimes when we dream we end up seeing other things that are happening in the real world, and we can learn information that way. And other times we're the ones entering dreams and manipulating a few things to get different results. Yours is a whole other level of stuff.
I didn't get thrown in jail. I could just say I'm taking you on a tour to keep you on the straight and narrow.
[ heh. hello i'm taking my child for a tour so he doesn't get another overnight stay in a jail cell. ]
They have to sign a waiver. Or at least we normally get permission. It looks pretty bad if you say no mid murder investigation. [ ... ] I haven't actually gone into the same person's somnium twice...? But it wouldn't necessarily be the same next time you go in. Just like you can't guarantee you'll pick up a dream if you wake up and go to sleep again. So, we have to get through all a person's mental locks before we run out of time.
It's a similar principle, honestly. Nothing we collect can be used as evidence in court, as it's influenced -- like, someone might picture themselves as a murderer in their Somnium because they failed to help someone who died, not because they're actually a killer. But it can lead us down a path we wouldn't have thought of, or give us a clue that we wouldn't have thought of.
Like a field trip. [ that might work actually, but he's distracted once again. ]
...yeah it's kind of what I was saying last weekend about our phones. If you don't have anything to hide, why refuse the check? [ he says, as someone who regularly refuses strip check. ] What's the time limit before you can't be there anymore? I'm...going to guess it's bad if you go past it. For them and for you.
It's unconventional but it sounds useful for at least knowing where you should look next. As long as person doesn't figure out how to purposefully mislead you guys in a somnium.
[ … ] Well, I do get the phone thing. If you had embarrassing photos or messages from someone you like, that kind of thing. But you should be able to oversee someone snooping through it, if only to potentially warn them if they’re about to come across a lingerie picture.
Six minutes. That’s the official line — it’s a hard limit in practice, but reality’s a little different. It all came out a few years ago internally what happens if you stay in a somnium for longer than six to eight minutes.
People don’t remember their somnium. Their own mental defences make it difficult, but they can’t stop you from digging. It’ll just be trickier and more aggressive towards you if they’re determined to hide something.
[ nico, a boy who truly never thought about anything like that: what would even be considered embarrassing. and then tama says that and he just kind of closes his eyes. ]
I should hope that if people are sending lewd photos and messages they would know how to move them to a separate folder. [ dry. he does not want to perceive. ] But fair enough.
...it sounds like it could be easy to get lost in there if you're exploring and trying to find something without knowing where to look. No wonder it's a very specialized thing. Too bad there isn't anything similar we can do here to try and delve into the minds of possible suspects but maybe that's really for the better.
[ never mind now he's staring at her and he just decides to drop the topic because thinking about possibly running into someone else's nudes is a literal nightmare, actually. ]
Anyway. [ gods. ] ...being here and having to do everything like this must be driving you crazy. Like everything feels a little backwards.
[ i'm not going to respond to this or what he thinks of tama's life advice rn. ]
I imagine having your own autonomy to move around and be able to examine and experience things on your own has had its ups and downs. Worth it in the end?
If that's a thing you like, then yeah. I'd say that's a good enough payoff. [ he gets there are details, complicated, to these things but he respects her enough not to push. ]
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
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but yeah he grins a little. ]
I'd almost say quirkiest human I know, but you have some competition. But the breathing thing kinda gave it away, yeah. It doesn't matter to me though. [ tama is tama, basically. ] It worked out for him for a while, sure. But eventually I think he realized he couldn't continue to run. At the end of it all, he let me release his soul. He's currently building overpasses for my father for Asphodel though, so it could be worse for him.
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[ it’s there but without “her” it’s just ones and zeros. ]
… Oh come on, you don’t have to immediately agree with me. Although, ooh. Who? Who’re my rivals? [ lmao ]
It’s kind of weird— death being something you want to avoid, but you still have an active afterlife anyway. Most people just think of it as lights out, you’re done. [ … ] I wonder if it’s more like the death you know or the one I’d think of, here.
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[ your data, so it were. ]
Why does it feel like you'd say the same if I didn't agree? And no way, I'm not telling. But...they're friends, so that's all you need to know.
[ he thinks this over. ] In his specific case, he was avoiding death because he was avoiding a ghost who wanted to rule unfair judgment against him once he got to the Underworld. But when I released him he was able to be fairly judged even if Minos tried to rule against him. The politics of death are a little...[ he waves a hand. ]
...I think if anything, the death here is something in between. I've been trying to figure that out.
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Pfft. No faith in me. [ hmmm. ] Mean.
That sounds way too complicated. But— I wonder if death is really “the end” here. I don’t know how? And I don’t know if I want to dig into the how either.
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When Ryuki's what? [ explain the psync. he does not apologize but he does grin at her. he is mean. but also. ] You'd be surprised how much I actually trust you, Tama. Let's just leave it that way.
I'm trying to decide which leader might have the best leads to ask about tapping into our old powers, or at least contacting the deceased. With everything that we've heard lately I don't think they're fully gone. At least not the way we would expect.
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[ she does not elaborate even though she knows she will probably have to eventually. the next part does get a blink from her. a tiny little surprised one. ]
Oh. [ awwwww ] I guess that works both ways then.
Hmm. Good point. I don’t know if any if them have a special interest in the supernatural or something, that could be a start….
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I think...some of them have experience with things similar to what I've seen before. But I don't know if it's the same. I'll have to think about who's most reasonable if it's not someone with experience with the dead.
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I wondered if there might be something in the depths of the jail — y’know, where people can’t normally go? But I can’t imagine it’d be easy to secretly host an ever expanding group of people there. And it’s not like I can tap into one of the jailer’s somniums to find out the place’s secrets.
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It's possible. Since we know the jail blocks people's powers from being used, there's probably a whole other level that we weren't able to get to before we all got arrested.
[ ....god. hold on. ]
Okay, and what's a somnium?
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[ somehow ]
Oh. It’s like a memory— or a vision? Unique to a person, and based off their memories and recent events or traumatic, significant experiences that have impacted them. We use it for suspects who can’t or won’t talk, either because they’re scared, threatened or just have something to hide.
I explore them, but it’s at Ryuki’s … not command? But he can’t physically enter a Somnium. I can. Sort of. Depends on how define “physically”.
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Maybe. We have time during the beginning of our weeks for things. And we're heroes. It wouldn't be that out there to think heroes want to check the security of the prisons and make sure the city's safe, right? Distract a guard long enough and you can go anywhere.
[ ...this sounds like a dream to him, really, but that's probably because demigod dreams are usually prophetic, or can show people visions of current things happening. or in nico's case it's just a litany of nightmares mixed in with both options so whatever. ]
Like hypnotherapy. You can help a person's subconscious with discovering what their brains are trying to say and learn more information to work off of in the outside world. [ huh. wild. he nods though because he gets it. partnership, not orders.] Can Ryuki see what you're doing while you're in a Somnium then? Or do you talk to him before you go in to start looking at what's there?
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[ chaos ]
Mm. Not exactly. A subject doesn’t remember the events of their somnium, despite being present it in. It’s like accessing deeply buried memories at a subconscious level. Yup. Ryuki’s present, and I can’t access a somnium without him. But I’m the one interacting with everything. It’s an abstract simulation, after all. The only time Ryuki would be “present” physically in a somnium would be if it was his own.
He can see everything I do, and figure out what we’re seeing together. The somnium is linked to a video feed as well, so Boss and Pewter usually observe too.
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I do have to wonder if they'd let me considering what happened last time. [ i.e. he got arrested once for breaking into jail, so would they just go "no" next time? ] There has to be a better way in. That's what we should focus on, and see what other people might be able to do. Even if it's not the jail...we should start prioritizing looking through the city for anything unusual.
[ this is all kind of big-brain stuff but at the same time he does seem to understand what she's saying. he nods along, letting her talk as he sorts through the info. ]
Makes sense. If people knew you were poking around in their subconscious they'd probably be pretty mad and you wouldn't be able to get the information you needed in the first place. Is a somnium the same every time you go into it? Like if you leave and then you want to find an answer to a different question.
[ ... ] I guess it doesn't matter here, I was just wondering. It sounds a little similar to how our dreams work, sometimes. Sometimes when we dream we end up seeing other things that are happening in the real world, and we can learn information that way. And other times we're the ones entering dreams and manipulating a few things to get different results. Yours is a whole other level of stuff.
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[ heh. hello i'm taking my child for a tour so he doesn't get another overnight stay in a jail cell. ]
They have to sign a waiver. Or at least we normally get permission. It looks pretty bad if you say no mid murder investigation. [ ... ] I haven't actually gone into the same person's somnium twice...? But it wouldn't necessarily be the same next time you go in. Just like you can't guarantee you'll pick up a dream if you wake up and go to sleep again. So, we have to get through all a person's mental locks before we run out of time.
It's a similar principle, honestly. Nothing we collect can be used as evidence in court, as it's influenced -- like, someone might picture themselves as a murderer in their Somnium because they failed to help someone who died, not because they're actually a killer. But it can lead us down a path we wouldn't have thought of, or give us a clue that we wouldn't have thought of.
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...yeah it's kind of what I was saying last weekend about our phones. If you don't have anything to hide, why refuse the check? [ he says, as someone who regularly refuses strip check. ] What's the time limit before you can't be there anymore? I'm...going to guess it's bad if you go past it. For them and for you.
It's unconventional but it sounds useful for at least knowing where you should look next. As long as person doesn't figure out how to purposefully mislead you guys in a somnium.
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[ … ] Well, I do get the phone thing. If you had embarrassing photos or messages from someone you like, that kind of thing. But you should be able to oversee someone snooping through it, if only to potentially warn them if they’re about to come across a lingerie picture.
Six minutes. That’s the official line — it’s a hard limit in practice, but reality’s a little different. It all came out a few years ago internally what happens if you stay in a somnium for longer than six to eight minutes.
People don’t remember their somnium. Their own mental defences make it difficult, but they can’t stop you from digging. It’ll just be trickier and more aggressive towards you if they’re determined to hide something.
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I should hope that if people are sending lewd photos and messages they would know how to move them to a separate folder. [ dry. he does not want to perceive. ] But fair enough.
...it sounds like it could be easy to get lost in there if you're exploring and trying to find something without knowing where to look. No wonder it's a very specialized thing. Too bad there isn't anything similar we can do here to try and delve into the minds of possible suspects but maybe that's really for the better.
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Yeah, but you'd name it something like "Weekend at the Spa" not "nsfw do not interact" because that's like a beacon. People will interact.
[ life advice. ]
Ish? You can be force ejected at any point, so it's not so bad. It just means you lose the lead.
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Anyway. [ gods. ] ...being here and having to do everything like this must be driving you crazy. Like everything feels a little backwards.
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It's weird, but when you don't have a choice you get used to it. Having a body as its perks.
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I imagine having your own autonomy to move around and be able to examine and experience things on your own has had its ups and downs. Worth it in the end?
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[ and a number of other things but--
y'know. details. complicated. ]
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If that's a thing you like, then yeah. I'd say that's a good enough payoff. [ he gets there are details, complicated, to these things but he respects her enough not to push. ]